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Homelessness is a complex problem that many communities face and many governments and nonprofits try to tackle.
CATCH, a nonprofit based in Boise,ID, helps people by meeting their immediate housing needs, but also by making long-term changes to prevent homelessness in the future. Stephanie Day, executive director of CATCH, shares with Ryan the work that goes into providing sustainable housing solutions for individuals and families in Boise, ID. She also shares the challenges that arise when running a nonprofit and the importance of relying on her staff, board of directors, and community for support.
2:00 Homelessness in Boise, ID 4:50 How CATCH got started 7:12 CATCH’s five core purposes 10:30 Our Path Home 13:30 Effects of de-institutionalization of housing 18:33 Homelessness programs in other countries 20:55 Effect of political relationships in the nonprofit 21:56 Importance of administrative support 23:50 Importance of the board of directors 25:30 Success stories 27:30 Partnering with other organizations
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Ryan Dye (00:00):
From CoLab Inc. it's There to Here, a show about entrepreneurs, innovators, and investors and the impact they seek to make on the world. On today's episode, we talk with Stephanie Day, executive director of the nonprofit, CATCH. Stephanie shares the organization's vision to end homelessness in communities throughout Southeastern Idaho's Treasure Valley. With a focus on providing safe, healthy housing and community for those displaced by loss of work, domestic violence or substance abuse, CATCH is determined to increase public awareness around homelessness in order to make it rare, brief and non-recurring.
Ryan Dye (00:35):
We'd love to get your feedback on our show. So I'm asking that you take a moment and visit colabinc.org to fill out a brief survey and you'll be entered to win a $25 Amazon gift card. I'm Ryan Dye, Executive director of CoLab and on today's show, we're talking with Stephanie Day, Executive Director of the nonprofit organization, CATCH. Stephanie has a bachelor's and master's degree in social work with several years experience working in social services helping folks in need. Stephanie, welcome to the show.
Stephanie Day (01:02):
Thank you so much for having me.
Ryan Dye (01:03):
So we're both located near Boise, Idaho with around, I don't know, 600+ thousand people, in what is known as the Treasure Valley. And this is the largest metropolitan area in the state of Idaho. And although we're not necessarily considered a major city, such as San Francisco or LA or Seattle, we still face a lot of the challenges of homelessness amongst our fellow Idahoans. What are you seeing in our area on this issue?
Stephanie Day (01:32):
Yeah, so our nonprofit focuses on serving the Treasure Valley. So we have an office in Boise and it serves Ada County. And then we have an office in Nam, but it serves region three, which is eight different counties to the west of us, west and north of us. And so what we've noticed locally is that we've always had a homelessness problem since the 80s, since homelessness really became the issue that it is today. But, over the last several years, probably specifically the last three or four years, the way that the housing market costs have increased and income has not really increased, we're starting to see a growth in people who maybe have never experienced homelessness before.
Stephanie Day (02:19):
People who have been renting for years in the same place, but their property is being sold because it's worth so much more now. And it's being bought oftentimes by people out of state and the rent is being raised. And they can't afford to live there any longer, but everything else has risen too. So there's not really an affordable option for them to move to. And then they just are kind of stuck in the shelters or a car or something like that, because they can't find affordable housing.
Stephanie Day (02:47):
So it's been an issue for years, but it seems like the shift of what we're seeing within the demographics of the community experiencing homelessness is shifting a little bit more to people experiencing first-time homelessness.
Ryan Dye (03:03):
Sure. Well, we do have the blessing, I guess you could say, of being a hot real estate market, which can be good for the economy. But it definitely puts a lot of pressure on folks that are in the margins. Like you say, you could have a building that might be affordable housing, but the land is more valuable and it's time for someone who will want to come in and develop on that and that can displace people for sure. So, certainly a challenge. Are you seeing a continued increase in homelessness, in particular like in Boise itself or just really across the Valley, this is a common challenge?
Stephanie Day (03:42):
Yeah, I would say over the last five years in Ada County, it's been fairly stable. It's been growing, but not by leaps and bounds. In Canyon County and farther west in the Treasure Valley, it seems to be growing pretty consistently. So yeah, I would say in Ada County, it's kind of consistent and it's growing a little bit year after year, but in Canyon County, it's definitely growing a lot faster than that.
Ryan Dye (04:09):
Right. Well, I would think too that a lot of smaller communities, they don't necessarily have some of the safety net resources that bigger cities would tend to have, so that can make it even all the more challenging and put pressure on those communities.
Stephanie Day (04:25):
Yeah. Transportation issues in smaller communities are huge. Not that we have the best transportation in Ada County, but we have some transportation. So transportation plays a big part in that and employment opportunities in smaller communities.
Ryan Dye (04:41):
For sure. So how did CATCH get started?
Stephanie Day (04:45):
Great question. So CATCH was actually piloted as a city of Boise program in 2006. So, at the time Dave Bieter was mayor of Boise and there was a local shelter that had been closed down and families were accessing that shelter prior to its closure. So, CATCH was kind of created as an alternative to shelter for families. And it had been... What we like to call this type of model is rapid rehousing. And that model had been around within the country for 20, 30 years, but it hadn't really been serving families with children. So the city of Boise's program was really a pilot nationally to kind of look at how do we adapt this Housing First model to work for families.
Stephanie Day (05:34):
And initially the focus was a private public partnership. So the city of Boise operated the program and partnered with churches mostly. Initially churches would sponsor a family for their rent and utilities and then CATCH would provide the support services. And over time we just have kind of grown and evolved since then. Still working on rapid rehousing resources for families, but adding a few other programs to our repertoire, if you will.
Ryan Dye (06:06):
Yes. Well, that actually leads me to the question of, in the nonprofit world I think it's important for folks if they're looking to start a nonprofit or maybe they're in the early stages of that, that an organization, there's nothing that says it can't change and adapt and work to be relevant in different ways as time goes on, because nothing is happening in a vacuum. And obviously homelessness is a massive challenge that I think requires creativity and how we respond to it. So I think that's an important thing to note just from a structural level, is be flexible, your organization will need that.
Stephanie Day (06:47):
Definitely. Yeah. And I would say, especially in the homelessness realm, there are a million needs, right? The system is very flawed. We have nowhere near the resources that the communities actually need to meet need. So there are a million different things you could do jumping into homelessness and so what we try to do as an organization, is we have five core purposes of our existence that we use as a filter for deciding when are we going to branch off in a new direction and when are we not? Because mission creeps is a really serious issue for nonprofits sometimes where, because you can do so many things, you just keep adding things to your plate, but then you never actually become an expert in anything. You just do a bunch of things, but maybe not super well.
Ryan Dye (07:31):
Preach it. This is true.
Stephanie Day (07:34):
Yeah. So that's what we try to do. We say, here are the reasons that we exist, if there's a new opportunity that comes to us, does it fit within these purposes? Because if it doesn't, then it's something that somebody else should be doing, not us.
Ryan Dye (07:48):
Right. That's a good point.
Stephanie Day (07:50):
Ryan Dye (07:51):
Yeah. I think that's where you need to have a good board who can provide some direction and wisdom in that, because they might see this and go, "Well, this is a worthy endeavor you might want to do, but it doesn't fit our mission and I don't think we'll do it effectively." And I think that you have to be able to answer that question as well. That's a good point with the programs that you have, as you say, you're focusing more on families. I mean, a lot of shelters are structured in a way that it might just be an individual that is needing temporary housing or shelter space, but your goal is really to work within the family structure, whether that's a single mom or dad, however many kids, and work to get them into housing, not just a shelter-oriented resolution.
Stephanie Day (08:40):
Yeah. I have a couple thoughts. So one, so CATCH started as an organization, focusing on serving families with children. And while that is still really important to the work that we do, we recognize that other people have needs too. And so the newer programs that we've brought on in the last couple of years are an attempt to address needs for households that don't have kids, because sometimes you have maybe a parent whose child is developmentally delayed and they they're over 21, but they need to be taking care of them. Or you might have an elderly couple, other people have needs too. So we are trying to branch off in that direction a little bit more, but it's definitely a growth process of just recognizing what's possible.
Ryan Dye (09:27):
Sure. Would you agree that part of the goal is helping someone who might be in a abusive situation at home and so they're leaving a dangerous situation with their kids and they need a place to go. So it's not like they were necessarily homeless before, but they're in a dangerous spot. And so, that creates a homeless problem.
Stephanie Day (09:52):
Oh yeah, definitely. So fleeing domestic violence is actually considered to be experiencing homelessness under federal regulations. And that is the number one cause for families to be experiencing homelessness, in Ada County anyway, by far and away, most families that come to us are in that situation.
Ryan Dye (10:11):
Sure. Yeah. That's a need that needs to be filled and you've got to be able to provide a safe place for a spouse and children, especially. So CATCH's a story is quite simple. Every family, every person, a home. Tell me about Our Path Home programs.
Stephanie Day (10:29):
Sure. So Our Path Home is a kind of centralized hub for all the housing resources in Ada County. So prior to Our Path Home's existence, if someone experienced a housing crisis, they would have to try to figure out how to navigate the resource system by themselves, which doesn't sound that hard, but if you actually try to do it, it's pretty complicated. So let's say you experience a housing crisis. You call 211, maybe you know about that, the resource hotline, and they give you four different numbers of different programs to call. So then you call all four of those different programs and one of them tells you you're not eligible. And other one gives you another resource and you could spend all day kind of running around, trying to figure out where you even need to go to get access to what you need.
Stephanie Day (11:15):
And so what we did with Our Path Home was created one entry point into the whole system. That team specializes in being familiar with all the eligibility criteria, everything, with all of the housing resources. And they sit down with each household that comes in and we kind of talk about their housing history, their income history, childcare needs, like physical health needs, all the holistic picture that they need to put into place to get homed. The program is called Our Path Home, so we like to say there is a path home for everyone, it just might look different based off of your circumstances.
Stephanie Day (11:50):
So then we help them develop a plan, like what their path home looks like, which resources they're eligible for and we try to kind of create this bigger picture plan for getting home. And then that's overwhelming when you're in crisis, to be looking at the big picture, so we then break it down into the first three steps that somebody can take to start down that path. And we let them know that if they complete those first three steps and they feel like they need some help figuring out what the next three steps are, they can stop back in and we'll help them with that. But just trying to break it into more manageable, bit-sized pieces.
Ryan Dye (12:27):
For sure. No, I'm sure it's a very overwhelming endeavor, because you're in a stressful situation and you've got to jump through a bunch of hoops to figure out where you need to go. So I think being able to have a guide with you in that process would be vital for sure. I spent quite a bit of time working at a church up on Capitol Hill, which is a very colorful neighborhood. One of the pastors I worked with often called it the kaleidoscope of society. And there was quite a bit of homelessness in that area, being part of a major city, and many folks were dealing with mental issues and substance abuse and it obviously had an effect on a person's ability to have sustainable housing. Have you seen that as a problem in our area?
Stephanie Day (13:18):
I think that's a problem pretty much everywhere. And I think part of that is due to the fact that in the 80s, as a country, we decided to deinstitutionalize. So prior to the 80s, if somebody was not living at a level where they functionally can take care of themselves because of severe and persistent mental illness, they were living in an institution. And we decided that people weren't being treated well and that didn't really align with our values as a country, so we chose to deinstitutionalize and move everybody that was living in an institution out. And the promise was that money would follow those people into the communities so that they could live in supportive housing and that never materialized for a lot of folks. So now you have a lot of people living on the streets all over the country, that in the 80s or before that, would have been living in an institution. And now they're just trying to survive on the streets that don't really have the capacity to be able to get a ton better and that needs supportive housing, but we just don't have that.
Stephanie Day (14:23):
So I think that you're going to see that pretty much all over the country, but also experiencing homelessness is in and of itself a super traumatic experience. Imagine everything that you own and your home, and you don't feel safe and you don't have your basic needs met, that in and of itself is traumatic. But also we know that a lot of people experiencing homelessness have experienced serious traumatic events before they experienced homelessness, too. And so just living in that state of not having your basic needs met, not feeling safe, not feeling secure, not knowing what you're doing, feeling super stressed out and having all of your bandwidth kind of sucked into survival, It takes an emotional and mental toll on people. So the experience of homelessness itself causes mental health issues.
Ryan Dye (15:08):
Sure. No, that would totally make sense. In your experience, are there any parts of our country that seemed to be dealing with this challenge better than others? I mean, obviously, some of the major cities, it's just never ending, but have you seen some success stories in other areas or how we've been able to model that here in the Treasure Valley?
Stephanie Day (15:30):
Yeah. So Houston is the country that is touted... The city that's touted as being the best at actually ending homelessness, not just putting people on buses and sending them somewhere else, but actually building programming. And a lot of what they have embraced and what a lot of communities across the country are embracing now is what's called a Housing First program model. And we just launched one of those here, the first one in Idaho, the fall of 2018. But the philosophy behind the Housing First program is that for people with severe and persistent mental illness, they need a higher level of care than someone who may not have those challenges, but most of our programming that's been built to address that has been really high barrier and not very tolerant of behavioral health issues.
Stephanie Day (16:22):
So Housing First program is very low barrier. It's easy for people to get into, there are not a lot of eligibility criteria and then there's onsite support services at the housing. So the new path community housing that we've just built and launched in Boise about a year and a half ago, there is an RN that's onsite. There are counselors and peer support specialists and substance use treatment folks, and just a whole support team of people that help the people living there stay good tenants and stay housed.
Ryan Dye (16:53):
That's excellent. I think that's a big part of it. You can't just look at the challenge and say, "Oh, well, if we just provide housing, that will help solve some of this." It's a multifaceted, multi-angled issue that I think you have to be able to have the right people in place to help various challenges, so that you enable a person's chances of success much better.
Stephanie Day (17:18):
Exactly. Yeah. Housing is a starting point, but it's not the answer for most people. Most people need some form of support beyond housing.
Ryan Dye (17:27):
Right. I know in Seattle, when I was there, they had built a facility that was basically like a sober house or something or other, to deal with folks that were struggling with alcohol abuse and whatnot. And it just didn't work, because it was only addressing one side of a multidimensional problem. And so it just became a disaster. It only made things worse. And it's not safe housing when you're constantly having to get law enforcement there to help break up a fight or whatever it may be. And that's a scary situation.
Ryan Dye (18:03):
I'm glad to hear that there's a city out there that's doing some things well, that can be a model. And I would agree, I think that we transitioned out of an institutional model and just said, "Hey, here you go." And then the funding will follow and obviously that didn't happen. And it's affected our city since then. Do you think there are other countries that have been able to address homelessness better than others that you've seen?
Stephanie Day (18:29):
I know that Europe has a really robust unsheltered homeless programming that is quite advanced beyond ours. So we read a lot of their materials when we're looking at best practices, for example, for street outreach programs, to reach folks who are not connected to shelter systems. Housing program wise, I think at this point internationally, Housing First is the best practice and hopefully we'll evolve to something even better in the future, but currently that's what everybody's embracing.
Ryan Dye (18:59):
Sure. Are there events or conferences that you've attended in the past with other organizations that are similar to CATCH? I mean, where you can share ideas and be able to talk and network with your colleagues in this area.
Stephanie Day (19:13):
Yeah, those are the best. So the ones that I've been to are coordinated by the National Alliance to End Homelessness and they are fantastic. So it's all these providers from all over the country. And while our communities are really unique in lots of different ways, there are some things that are pretty universal. It's really helpful to just go and understand, Oh, this is bigger than just my community, there's a lot of us is trying to tackle this. But also I went to a conference in San Francisco last year that really opened my mind to thinking in different ways, because our homelessness issues are serious, especially for the people experiencing them, but they're nothing compared to Los Angeles. I mean, they have 60,000 people.
Ryan Dye (19:56):
Yes. Or San Francisco.
Stephanie Day (19:57):
Yeah. San Francisco. More people than live in Nampa, on the streets every night, sleeping outside. And so they have to get really creative and think outside of the box when they're addressing their homelessness issues and if it's helpful for us as a community to be like, Oh, there's another way to think about this. And maybe there's some new innovative thought process that we've never had before, because this community really has to think outside the box. So yeah, it's awesome. Going to national conferences.
Ryan Dye (20:23):
Yeah. I think it's important to be able to connect with colleagues and like-minded folks to be able to share ideas and sometimes there's something you weren't thinking about that someone else is doing and they've had success with that. Do you find that having a relationship with community leaders, whether it's your city council mayor, et cetera, is a vital part of the success of your program? And can that sometimes get in the way of things, or are you find that you have a pretty good relationship, regardless of how the turnover happens in community leadership?
Stephanie Day (20:53):
Yeah. I mean, I feel especially political relationships are really essential. We've been able to do so much work in Ada County, because there's so much political will to make it happen. And in other communities where we're involved, it might not be as important a priority for them. So your political support, it makes 100% difference in the amount of work that you can get done.
Ryan Dye (21:19):
For sure. I think that would be important. So as an executive director, you have to wear a lot of hats in a nonprofit, because you're focusing on fundraising, leadership, management, rules and regulations you have to work with. I mean, all these different things. And so it can get rather challenging or overwhelming. Do you find that you have a good staff that helps you with those areas? I mean, fundraising in particular is huge, because we can't do anything without money.
Stephanie Day (21:47):
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I would say for me personally, I get a lot of support in the area of prioritization of all the things that I need to do from my coach. So I have an executive coach that I meet with. Was meeting with him weekly and now it's monthly, but he helps me figure out, of all the priorities that I have, which ones are the most urgent and the biggest impact and then we work our way back from there. And I have amazing staff. I try not to burden them with that. They have their own things that they need to be doing. So I try to figure out for me first, what's my priority. And my role for them is helping them stay outside of the chaos.
Stephanie Day (22:29):
There's three layers, right? So there's me as executive director, there's the program directors and then there's the frontline workers, the case managers. So my role is to keep the program directors outside of the chaos, because the people that they're supervising or working with people in chaos, and they will pull you into chaos with them. So they need to be the ones in the watchtower that can see further ahead than this present moment and help plan for their team. And I view myself as the person that helps them stay outside of the chaos. If that makes sense.
Ryan Dye (23:03):
Yeah. That sounds important. Yeah, for sure. No, I think that's a really good point. Yeah, it's exciting when you're running a nonprofit or you're part of one, from one day to the next, you never know what challenge or issue might you might need to deal with. So I think it's important to have a degree of flexibility and build a great team around you as well. And speaking of which, every nonprofit needs to have an advisory board or a board of directors, do you feel that you have a great board to work with? Are they're able to provide some good insight and help to make the organization successful?
Stephanie Day (23:42):
Yeah. My board is amazing and it's taken time to get there. It hasn't always been, but at this point, our board is amazing. So they have agreed, which I think is kind of a healthy balance between a board and program staff, that program staff are hired because of their expertise. So the board doesn't feel like they need to really do a ton of work in that area. They really view their role as community connection and helping with fundraising, which is the best space for them, because those are usually the pieces that we don't have expertise in, that they do. We've got a really good balance on our board.
Ryan Dye (24:21):
That's excellent. In building the board, how much responsibility did you have in that process or is it more board-based?
Stephanie Day (24:28):
Yeah, so our board internally decides which skillsets are brought to us by the existing board members and where we might be missing something and then they collectively... If I had an idea, I could throw it out there, but they collectively decide who we're going to reach out to, to invite to join the board, based off of whatever skillset we're hoping that they bring to the group.
Ryan Dye (24:51):
For sure. Yeah. I think that's important. And really it's your networking arm and the liaison to the community, because these folks are involved in various ways and to have great people who think, not only do I have business skills or whatever it may be, I can say, "Well, I know these resources out here in the community could really benefit this organization in these ways." And the more you have people that think that way, the better, I think it will help the organization down the road.
Stephanie Day (25:20):
Ryan Dye (25:22):
What are some success stories that you could share, not names, but, that stick out to you?
Stephanie Day (25:30):
Yeah. So one that just happened recently that comes immediately to mind was of a woman that... In Idaho, we don't have a lot of group homes for people who have serious mental illness. What we have, are certified family group homes. So if you own your home and you want to get paid by the state to have somebody live in your home who has a mental illness, then you can do that. And we had a woman who had been living in a certified family home that it must have become too much for them, or I don't know what happened, but they just dropped her off on the street beside our building one night. And she was very low functioning. If she wandered off, she could have just died on the streets. She would not have known how to take care of herself, how to get food, all those things.
Stephanie Day (26:16):
And so our outreach team found her and tried to keep tabs on her for a few days, helped her get to the hospital, because she was really ill at that point in time and then coordinated to have a new certified family home come and pick her up. But I just think about, without that resource coordination, without the intervention of that team, who knows what would have happened to her. She potentially, literally, could have died on the streets. So they probably really, literally, saved her life.
Stephanie Day (26:45):
So that one just comes to mind because it was recent and pretty dramatic, but we also have several families that have been housed recently that have been fleeing domestic violence that our case managers' working with. And there's just so much involved in domestic violence. You maybe have not been allowed to work for a long time, so you don't have work history. You may have had your credit destroyed that you've been cut off from your friends and family. You don't have a lot of social network. So it's just on top of all the abuse that you've experienced and post traumatic stress disorder. So there's just so many pieces that go into helping somebody start over in a situation like that. So, anyway, those are the ones that come up to mind first.
Ryan Dye (27:28):
Are you able to partner with other like-minded organizations? For example, let's say, there's some children that need to be in the foster care system, because there's really no parent, are you able to work with those organizations in the state in tandem sometimes?
Stephanie Day (27:45):
Yeah, definitely. We sometimes do have families that are involved in the child protection services system. And oftentimes, the last thing that they need to do to get their kids back is have housing, because they're not going to be released back to a family if they don't have stable housing for them. So oftentimes, when we're moving them into housing, then it's like the last piece, then they're able to get their kids back and graduate from that system. And with the domestic violence specifically, we have a new partnership with the Women's and Children's Alliance. So we house some families specifically just fleeing domestic violence. We have somebody on our team who helps house them and then the case managers at the WCA do the support services moving forward. So we pay the rent and they do the support. So definitely could not do the work that we do without amazing partners in the community.
Ryan Dye (28:36):
How many folks on average do you think you're able to help each year?
Stephanie Day (28:40):
So we were around 50, prior to last year. Last year, I took over as executive director. We just decided we're just going to see what we can do without reigning it in. We had a little bit of surplus, so we just housed as many families as we could.
Ryan Dye (28:55):
Put the gas to the floor.
Stephanie Day (28:58):
Yeah. And we house 81 families last year.
Ryan Dye (29:01):
Wow. That's fantastic.
Stephanie Day (29:02):
Yeah. So the goal this year, coming into 2020, was to house 100 families this year. And then COVID hit, but we're still hoping to hit 100 families this year, maybe even surpass that.
Ryan Dye (29:13):
Well, we will definitely keep our fingers crossed and be thinking about you as you seek to make that goal. Because, as I was saying before, the needs will never disappear, they're always great and I think the more organizations we can have, like CATCH, I think is vital to the health of any community, honestly. So it's great, all the work that you're doing.
Stephanie Day (29:36):
I think if you wanted to sum up why we exist; our goal is to make homelessness rare, brief, and non-reoccurring. So when I say rare, I mean, hopefully we get people into the right level of service that they need. So, some people might not need very much help at all, financially or support wise. Some people might need just a little bit of temporary help and then other people might need longterm, more permanent support. So trying to get people into that right level of care in the first place.
Stephanie Day (30:07):
Brief. So the goal is to get it to a point where people are not experiencing homelessness for more than two months. That would be the goal. At this point, when people enter our program, they have, on average experienced 18 months of homelessness before they come to us.
Ryan Dye (30:21):
Wow. That's significant.
Stephanie Day (30:23):
Yeah. And we know from research that if someone experiences homelessness for 21 months, their longterm outcomes are pretty dramatically impacted. So we're trying to really reduce that length of time from 18 months down to two, is the goal. And then non-reoccurring, so making sure, again, that they're in the right type of program and that they don't ever have to reenter the system again. In summary, that's our big picture bowl.
Ryan Dye (30:49):
Right. In other words, your clients, you don't necessarily want to see again.
Stephanie Day (30:55):
Correct. Yeah. Maybe in the grocery store when they're with their kids.
Ryan Dye (31:00):
Exactly. Exactly. So Stephanie, how can folks get in touch with you and find out more about CATCH?
Stephanie Day (31:06):
Well, I would love for anybody who wanted more information or a tour or stats or whatever people might be interested in, to reach out to me personally. So you can reach my email at firstname.lastname@example.org or call me directly. My direct line is (208) 297-6845.
Ryan Dye (31:29):
Excellent. Well, I know there are folks out there that would love to be a part of what CATCH is doing and help in any way they can, so hopefully they will connect with you soon and we will definitely keep track of your progress and all the many wonderful things you're doing to help the Treasure Valley community, so thank you very much.
Stephanie Day (31:47):
Ryan Dye (31:47):
Well, thanks for joining us today and spending some time sharing about the CATCH program. Thank you also for listening to There to Here. We invite you to check us out on all the various social media platforms and visit our website colabinc.org to sign up for more information on many upcoming workshops and the various ways we provide mentorship to aspiring entrepreneurs.
Ryan Dye (32:06):
If you have comments on today's episode or know someone who would be a great guests on our show, send your suggestions to email@example.com. Special thanks to our producer, Michael Webberley, editing by Tanya Musgrave and all the CoLab staff. Until next time, be well and God bless.